Paul Wolf 33 min

Navigating Industrial Service Evolution: Insights from R.A. Jones Coesia


In this episode of the Aftermarket Champions Podcast, host Vivek Joshi interviews Paul Wolf (Director of Customer Service) from R.A. Jones, Coesia about his journey in the Customer service domain of the Industrial OEM industry. While talking about his journey, Paul passionately underscores RA Jones's commitment to a customer-centric approach, emphasizing the proactive understanding and anticipation of customer needs. This strategy not only fosters enduring client relationships but also elevates satisfaction and loyalty levels. Moving into training methodologies, Paul discusses the pivotal shift away from traditional classroom settings to interactive, video-based learning tools. This adaptation aligns with industry-wide digitalization trends, prioritizing swift information retrieval and efficient problem-solving. He addresses the challenges posed by a shifting workforce, particularly among younger generations who favor accessing information over retaining it. Paul highlights the critical role of knowledge management in transferring expertise from seasoned veterans to new hires, stressing the importance of capturing and standardizing knowledge effectively. Moreover, he emphasizes R.A. Jones Coesia's global approach to service, maintaining a delicate balance between standardized practices and localized adaptations to ensure consistent and effective support worldwide. Throughout, Paul underscores the significance of continuous customer feedback in refining service delivery, ensuring R.A. Jones Coesia remains agile and responsive to evolving customer needs and technological advancements in the industry.



0:00

Hi folks, welcome back to season 2 of the Aftermarket Champions podcast. I'm

0:05

your host

0:06

Vivek Joshi, founder and CEO of Entitled. We help equipment manufacturers

0:10

identify, prioritize,

0:12

and sell aftermarket and service solutions to their install base. Insights, our

0:17

purpose

0:18

built install base intelligence platform, is used by leading OEMs globally to

0:22

drive

0:22

revenue growth and improve customer experience and satisfaction. I'm delighted

0:27

to be back

0:27

funneling and reaching journey into the world of aftermarket excellence.

0:31

Throughout the season,

0:32

we'll engage in an insightful discussion with industry leaders, exploring

0:35

innovative strategies

0:37

and invaluable insights to propel us forward in industrial aftermarket sector.

0:40

So, without further

0:42

ado, let's embark on this journey together. Good afternoon everybody. This is

0:54

Vivek Joshi,

0:55

your host of the Aftermarket Champions podcast. I'm pleased to bring you

0:59

another edition of

1:00

our podcast with my guest today being Paul Wolf. Paul is the director of

1:04

customer service at

1:05

Ari Jones, which is a division of Cohesia, a large Italian conglomerate of

1:09

packaging and other

1:10

machinery making equipment. Paul is based in Devonport, Iowa, and that's where

1:16

he comes to

1:17

us today. Paul, welcome to the show. Thanks Vivek. I'm happy to be here.

1:22

So Paul, I always talk in my show of my interview, my conversation with my

1:26

guest for this very simple

1:27

question. Tell us a little bit about Paul, what's your background, what you do

1:32

along the way to get

1:33

to this role and then I can dig into a couple more questions from there. Sure.

1:37

So, I actually

1:39

started out as an engineer, so I went to the University of Iowa, there's my

1:43

Iowa plug.

1:44

Thank you very much. Started out in mechanical engineering and always thought I

1:50

wanted to be

1:50

an engineer, designed things for the rest of my life and that's where the

1:53

journey started. So,

1:54

in about 2000, I joined packaging technologies, which eventually became Ari

2:00

Jones as a mechanical

2:01

engineer, designing packaging equipment, working on auto product, home attics,

2:06

sealing equipment,

2:07

eventually some curing projects that got into coffee, but moved through

2:12

engineering,

2:13

a little bit of engineering management, got into some applications engineering,

2:17

went into project

2:18

management, and then eventually, Coagia bought us 13 years later and moved into

2:24

the Lean Six Sigma

2:25

program. So, after engineering, I moved into Six Sigma, did a black belt stint,

2:31

learned a lot of

2:33

business process and a lot of improvements, and then on the next side of Lean

2:38

Six Sigma moved into

2:39

customer service, where I thought I'd never be. I thought I'd sit and look at

2:44

designs and work on

2:45

equipment in my computer all day long, and they said, "Well, how would you like

2:48

customer service?"

2:48

I'm like, "Okay, what is that?" So, I moved into customer service operations,

2:55

worked on arts

2:56

and service to start with, and really have been there since 2016, growing,

3:02

learning,

3:03

figuring out how to work on the business, improve the business, help customers

3:09

out,

3:10

engage our team into really meeting customer expectations, and really trying to

3:14

push

3:15

Ari Jones into the next level of customer service, where we're really a partner

3:19

with our clients,

3:20

and really working hard to make sure their outputs are working. When our

3:25

customers are successful,

3:26

we're successful. That's really where we're looking to be. So, that was the 24-

3:30

year journey in 30 seconds.

3:32

Interesting 24-year journey all in one shot. I think there's a couple of things

3:36

that were

3:37

actually of interest to me. You start as an engineer that, interestingly enough

3:42

, a lot of

3:43

the people have talked to start as an engineer, but unlike most, and I think

3:47

you might be one of two

3:48

that I've talked to, who journeyed into this whole realm of Six Sigma. I mean,

3:52

I did Six Sigma

3:53

a long time ago when I was at this big company on the East Coast that made it

3:58

popular.

3:58

But that was an interesting switch for you, and then more importantly, as from

4:03

an engineer

4:04

to Six Sigma to customer service, did that have any role to play in your shift

4:09

of focus or career

4:10

if you may? Yeah, probably it really did. As an engineer, I was never a real

4:17

good designer.

4:18

I was more a hands-on, make things work. So, once the machine, we built all the

4:23

equipment here in

4:24

the building. Once the machine was built and ready to start up, I was good at

4:27

figuring out how to

4:28

make it work efficiently, and my drive is in how to make things work better. So

4:33

, from engineering,

4:35

I did a lot of startups and helped in the field, and then learned how to

4:39

equipment work, learned

4:40

some of the electrical logic. I always thought I could have been a good

4:42

programmer too, because I'm

4:44

kind of logical. But, I mean, Six Sigma was a journey, and they said, "Hey, do

4:47

you want to do the Black

4:48

Bell program?" And I said, "Sure, what's that?" And they introduced it to me

4:53

was the start of

4:54

Guiz's Black Bell program, and really learned about process, learned about

4:59

statistics, and I never

5:01

realized how much I enjoy data and calculation, and looking at trends, looking

5:06

at visualizations of

5:08

where the highs and lows are, and figuring out how processes work through data.

5:13

And it was a neat

5:15

exposure to me, and I use that all the time now, because the data is everywhere

5:19

. And as we move

5:20

into a much more digital world, big data, there is a lot of information to go

5:25

through,

5:26

and if you can harness it and really utilize it to say, "Hey, here's the

5:30

important stuff. Here's

5:31

the noise," and say, "Hey, here's the things we need to change to make things

5:36

better. Here's the

5:37

stuff we can ignore." I think the Lean Six Sigma really gives you a tool to

5:42

look at data in a

5:43

different light, because you're looking for facts, you're looking for things

5:46

that exist in the world,

5:48

and trying to translate that into improvements and results on equipment. And so

5:53

I think that

5:54

gives you a base of relationship to looking at the data. A lot of things say, "

5:59

Hey, we're doing

6:00

this." I say, "Oh, great. Nice chart. Can I see the data?" Because I want to

6:03

analyze it,

6:04

because there's different ways to look at things. So I think that has really

6:07

given me the opportunity

6:08

to look at lots of big picture items, but break it down into a very methodical

6:13

data approach and

6:15

looking for results based on actual events versus, "I think we should kind of

6:19

go this way."

6:20

So I think that's really where it takes me to. I say, "Oh, that's a good idea.

6:25

Let's check the

6:25

data to make sure we're right." It's interesting you said that, right? Because

6:29

when I did Six Sigma

6:30

a long time ago, I think there are two things that I remember that stuck in my

6:33

mind. One is

6:34

you mentioned about the process, the ability to kind of follow that thing, the

6:37

other one is data.

6:38

But maybe there's a third thing that I think that took away. To me, Six Sigma

6:43

being in that

6:44

realm of Six Sigma was all about making processes more robust to have

6:51

consistent output in the face

6:52

of maybe varying input, which I think was the meta lesson out of that. How does

7:00

that translate

7:01

that mindset, if you may, translate into the customer service world? Because as

7:07

you said to us

7:08

before we started this conversation, a happy customer is really where you want

7:12

to be.

7:12

And happiness is as much about consistency of experience as anything else,

7:16

right?

7:17

Is that how you guys think about it as well? Absolutely. The real mindset that

7:23

you get to is

7:24

most of our happy customers have boring jobs because the machines are boringly

7:30

predictable.

7:31

I put anything in it, and at the end of the day, I get the same output machine

7:35

and product is

7:35

flowing out the door going to their customers. So boringly predictable is where

7:39

you want to get to.

7:41

And if you look at variations and changes, and if you can make machines boring

7:45

ly predictable

7:46

through proper maintenance, proper cleaning, proper training, replacement parts

7:50

when you need to,

7:51

and just make that machine just run. And now it becomes a boring job. That's

7:56

where you want to

7:56

get to because those are happy customers. When they're sitting at their line

7:59

staring at the

7:59

machines, they're like, "What do I do now?" I guess I'll just sit here and

8:02

watch it run.

8:02

Those are the kind of customers are the operators get bored and the output just

8:07

keeps going. So

8:08

when you talk about a lot of variation coming in, but it's boringly predictable

8:14

is what you

8:14

really want to be at for machine functionality. And that's what we try to get

8:18

to. How do we make

8:19

it so it never stops, and when it does stop, we know exactly what to do.

8:23

When you think about the other word you used to describe that role in between,

8:27

you said lean

8:28

and six-sigma. So lead was obviously popularized a long time ago with some of

8:34

the Japanese movements

8:34

out there to some degree six-sigma too with you know, Deming and everybody else

8:38

. But the lead movement

8:39

also wound up manifesting itself in the form of these quote unquote business

8:43

system kind of

8:44

mindsets, right? The famous one is down in our business system and a spot of

8:47

all a bunch of

8:47

different things. Is that something philosophy that Koija has adopted as well

8:52

or Jones particularly,

8:54

is that a way to kind of make it work together? Yeah, I think so. I think a lot

8:59

of the times you

9:00

say lean six-sigma and people, six-sigma is a lot of data which I like. Lean is

9:04

a lot of waste

9:05

management. I mean, how do you get rid of waste? How do you eliminate extra

9:09

cost? How do you get

9:10

waste, you know, waste in movement, waste in packaging? How do you get rid of

9:13

it? So,

9:14

so when I think about lean six-sigma, a majority of the times you start at lean

9:21

and you start at

9:22

waste elimination, what are the costs I can get rid of? Because those are

9:25

actually lean is actually

9:26

easier than six-sigma. Repeatability is a lot harder than starting at the

9:30

beginning. So,

9:31

so when I look at lean six-sigma, most of the time we start at lean and we look

9:34

at cost management

9:36

and what extra cost do I have that I can get rid of? What are the business

9:39

requirements? What

9:40

are the customer requirement? And then everything else I can get rid of to

9:44

reduce cost, reduce time,

9:46

and build more efficiency in the line. So when you really, when you really bake

9:49

time,

9:49

lean six-sigma lean really has a much bigger use when you start with customers,

9:56

when you start

9:57

in a in a plant, but six-sigma repeatability is great, but you really got to

10:02

start with the

10:02

lean. If you don't have lean, repeatability just isn't even going to be there.

10:06

So, yeah.

10:07

So, it's good because I knew you translate that in your customer service role

10:10

both for

10:10

some operations and now running the customer service or service business. You

10:14

know, clearly,

10:16

the intended cohesia broadly and Ari Jones and the division, I think CSNN was

10:20

the division name

10:21

of

10:39

the business. So, there's two years lost in just trying to, okay, let's stop

11:01

for a second and figure

11:05

out how to get the world back on track and then, okay, now let's start the

11:09

journey again. But

11:10

throughout the timeframe, I generally see packaging. The packaging world is a l

11:15

agging industry. The

11:17

technology is not cutting edge. You know, automotive has a lot of that.

11:21

Aerospace has a lot of the

11:22

cutting edge. Packaging is following up on some of the technology. So packaging

11:27

starts to see

11:28

things that are happening in the world and really progressing from the break

11:32

fix mindset. If it's

11:33

broken, I need to fix it. I'll run it, tell it breaks and then fix it to the

11:36

getting closer to

11:38

the preventative maintenance to the planned downtime. You get to predictably

11:43

boring. So,

11:44

I've seen the transition in some of our customers, some of the industries we

11:49

serve

11:50

throughout the last eight years and it's just kind of passing through industry

11:55

by industry,

11:56

getting to that mindset of really planning your downtime as opposed to break

12:02

fixing.

12:03

Because companies we started with years ago, when packaging technologies

12:09

wasn't to have import, absorb some companies. A lot of the smaller companies

12:13

were run and

12:14

tell it breaks, you bring in a service tech and you fix it with parts and then

12:17

you get up and

12:18

running against it and get production out. And that's transformed over the

12:21

course of the last,

12:22

even in the last eight years I've seen it to the mindset of, well, if I replace

12:26

it early,

12:27

I'm not, I'm spending a little more on parts, but I get a lot more production.

12:31

It's really focusing

12:32

on that output where the high dollar is. Saving money on parts is very small

12:38

compared to having

12:39

more production, more efficiency and more output with the same cost. If you can

12:44

get 10 more an hour

12:45

out of a machine with the same cost, minus the packaging and the cost of

12:50

materials, they're making

12:51

more money. So that's what we want to focus on. How do you make sure you're

12:56

very predictable,

12:57

you plan your maintenance, you do it at the right time. So it actually helps

13:01

them plan their

13:02

production and improve. So yeah, it's there. It's been a change. And a lot of

13:07

people are

13:08

changed on mindset. I get a lot more requests for this longer term planning,

13:12

this a can do monthly

13:15

preventative maintenance versus, hey, I need to take care tomorrow because we

13:18

just broke something.

13:19

Can you audit my machine to make sure it's going to keep running for the next

13:22

year versus,

13:23

hey, we need a shaft flown to a South pay a million dollars because I need

13:27

production tomorrow.

13:28

So it's that balance of emergency to predictability.

13:32

Predictability. And I think that's actually going back to the six signal

13:35

mindset.

13:36

Six signal about predictability, boring predictability, like I said, and

13:40

getting

13:40

getting a customer to that point also helps level load your resources as well.

13:45

So it's actually

13:46

it's helping both sides reduce waste in the system. Like you said, so it's all

13:49

connected to one another.

13:50

Yeah, because we are running out of people a lot of the time. It's hard. It's

13:56

hard to find a

13:57

lot of people right now, a lot of harder to hire people these days. So yeah,

14:01

you got to do more

14:02

with less. Everybody does. So it's funny who said that, right? Because one of

14:06

the questions I was

14:07

going to ask you, which was related to that is I actually did a webinar

14:11

yesterday. Of course,

14:12

there's a bit of marketing. I call it the autonomous aftermarket, right? And

14:16

the idea behind the

14:17

autonomous aftermarket autonomous aftermarket is to make it boringly

14:20

predictable or particularly boring.

14:22

But also to address the fact what you just said, Paul is almost everybody I

14:27

talk to in your shoes.

14:29

And even the website people are having a huge issue with two things. One is,

14:35

you know, people like me, we're retiring. My age is retiring. Lots of guys

14:39

getting out of the

14:40

workforce. Lots of people get into workforce. But the generation behind them is

14:44

not coming in the

14:45

volumes and quality skills that you expect. And so it's creating this little

14:50

capacity and capability

14:51

crunch right now, almost every single manufacturer. And the idea to use data,

14:56

to use automation,

14:57

to use intelligence to kind of overcome some of those gaps is a big deal. Is

15:01

that how you guys are

15:02

thinking about it? Also, are Jones and even Cohesia, broadly? Yeah, I think

15:06

everybody's thinking of

15:07

it that way because it's just our current reality. But there's more and more

15:12

plants where the

15:14

the guy who has been there for 45 years, everything about the machine has all

15:17

the parts stored away

15:18

in his office. Oh, that broke. I have one of those is disappearing. And it's

15:22

being replaced from

15:23

somebody that's has less experience, you know, much younger grew up in a

15:28

different different

15:29

mentality. The guys that have been there for years, they worked on their cars,

15:33

you know,

15:33

they changed their own oil. We don't change our oil anymore today. And some

15:38

kids have cars that

15:39

don't have oil. They're electric now, you know, you don't, you don't do oil

15:42

changes. So the world

15:44

is changing. You find in the past, if you needed information, you had to go

15:48

look it up. You had to

15:50

go to the library. And it was so much effort to find the information. Now I

15:55

have to retain it.

15:56

Nowadays, I can go to my phone and I can know something in two seconds. But I

16:00

don't remember

16:01

it tomorrow because I don't have to because my phone it phone knows it. So you

16:04

're we're finding

16:05

more people are better at indexing information from a source than they are

16:10

remembering information.

16:12

So how do you how do you make that information readily available to somebody

16:15

who's used to finding

16:16

it right away? I may have to look it up every time, but something else is

16:19

remembering it for me.

16:20

So indexing information becomes more important than remembering information.

16:25

And now you get into

16:26

okay, how do I prevent how do I present that information in a way that my

16:29

customer can utilize

16:30

it with the operators who are younger and they need to index it faster versus

16:34

remembering it?

16:35

How do I train people to do that? And and how do I how do I get them to do it

16:40

more

16:40

on and faster? And then you step into how can I get the machine to think for

16:45

itself to say,

16:47

hey, you should probably adjust this thing because I feel vibration in my

16:51

machine. I mean,

16:51

this is this is where you're getting into, you know, that a machine that's a

16:55

smart machine

16:56

that can give you hints on what to do next or you put your Google glasses on,

16:59

you walk up and there's

17:00

a note that says you need to do these five things. I don't know how to do that.

17:03

Well, let me get my

17:04

phone out and I can find it. So we're moving into that market and and there's a

17:09

high turnover,

17:10

a lot of fluidity in the in the in the human capital in the market. People are

17:15

moving all over,

17:16

changing jobs more often, working less. So how do you take how do you train

17:21

people faster,

17:22

provide the information faster and really replace the the veterans who know

17:27

everything about the

17:28

machine with people who know how to find information, they're mechanically

17:31

skilled or they can run

17:32

the machine, but they they need to find information quickly. So we're working

17:36

through that. It's a

17:37

struggle. It's a different mindset. But but that's the that's the next group,

17:42

the next generation,

17:43

it'll take over. They can index information, not necessarily remember it. I've

17:47

done it before. So

17:48

my son was the same way. He said, he said, I needed to fix my dryer and he says

17:54

, well, why don't you

17:54

just look up the YouTube video and go instead of calling the repairman? So I

17:57

looked up a YouTube

17:58

video and I watched it and I'm like, oh, I can do that. And I did it. And I'm

18:01

like, hey, I fixed my

18:02

dryer. So but do I remember what I did? No, because it was on a YouTube video,

18:07

I need to do it again. I

18:08

go look up the video. So there's a lot of struggle with how we deal with that,

18:12

how we change our mindset

18:13

how we train operators, train mechanics, and really enable them to to do things

18:19

with the technology

18:20

we have today. There's a lot of places they're like, oh, you can't have your

18:23

you can't have your

18:24

phone in production because it's a distraction. You're not going to work. And

18:27

now it's like, well,

18:27

you have to have your phone because you have information on it. So making that

18:31

information

18:32

available and utilizing it is is the next next ways of smart machines and how

18:38

we actually running

18:39

the world. So that's right. I love the term use. I'm going to borrow this term

18:45

indexing information

18:46

versus remembering information. I think that's really powerful because you're

18:49

right. The first

18:50

thing people do now, I just like you, I do this in the hour, automatic to go do

18:53

a YouTube search for

18:54

stuff that breaks in the house, right? Because it's the easiest thing somebody

18:58

's put a video on how to

18:59

fix it. What's interesting and actually, and this is a slightly different

19:03

direction for this

19:04

conversation is, but if you just think about what you said about your watch

19:07

experience, a dry experience

19:08

in YouTube, do you see that in your customer base where people are saying, Hey,

19:16

are you

19:16

Jones, why don't you guys put some repair videos online so I can quickly look

19:19

and see things because

19:20

maybe there's somebody who's skilled and talented enough to do it and they don

19:24

't want to wait for

19:25

your technician to show up. It's both good and bad, right? Good as in you make

19:28

information and

19:29

knowledge available bad. Yeah, they may be one less service call on behalf of

19:33

our Jones, which is

19:34

revenue, but you may have a happier customer because they have that. Are you

19:38

seeing that shift at all?

19:39

We do see that. We're seeing the request for more animation, more video content

19:46

. Less

19:48

classroom training is probably a thing in the past. People don't do as much

19:53

classroom training.

19:53

They want to do hands-on. I need to see it touch it, but they also want to see

19:57

a video of it and

19:59

training by video versus training by reading. We used to read everything

20:03

because there weren't any

20:04

videos. Now we want to see videos. So it does go that way and customers fast

20:12

forward and how do

20:14

you bridge the gap of providing content and then still maintaining a successful

20:19

business. I mean,

20:20

if you give away all your intellectual property, it's a problem, but if you don

20:24

't transform to

20:25

what the current market needs, you have problems. So to be a good vendor to our

20:31

customers, we've

20:32

got to provide that information. We've got to show them how to use it. We've

20:34

got to make it

20:34

available and how to control it, how do you access it. Then you're starting to

20:41

get to chat

20:42

GBT and this artificial intelligence stuff. Suddenly if something has all that

20:47

information,

20:48

you could have people servicing machines without any help. So it's a different

20:54

world we live in.

20:55

So, but I like to think that even if people have the information, they still

20:59

work with us because

21:00

we provide value. We help them do other things and help them really grow. So

21:05

that's what we're

21:06

focusing on, but it's a different world. It's always changing and it's growing

21:11

faster and faster. So

21:12

content, indexing information, controlling it, it's all moving forward. People

21:20

are asking for it.

21:21

It's where we're going. You know, it's the other point you made, which is

21:25

interesting.

21:25

And I've heard people say that, but I think you explicitly, I think you may be

21:30

saying this

21:30

explicitly as well, which is it's one thing to have your 45 year veteran who

21:34

has the art store,

21:35

it's some catalogs and some drawing store that is or her cabinet somewhere. But

21:40

you have the same

21:41

picture happening on the operator side and the on the customer side because

21:45

there have been

21:45

people who are running these machines for a long time. They've just been

21:48

running the same

21:48

machines for a long time. They have all that stuff stored in the head and now

21:51

the next generation

21:52

coming in dozen. And so it's fascinating to see the shift on both the vendor

21:57

side and the customer

21:58

side where the worlds are going to basically be the colliders or onward, but

22:01

definitely wind up

22:03

conversion where this change is going to create a need for service to get

22:08

delivered differently,

22:10

right? Going forward. Yeah, it's a different world. What is useful to the

22:16

customer, you know,

22:18

a lot of our customers, they just want to service tech to show up because they

22:23

don't have capacity

22:24

to work on their machines. So they need more capacity than any people. And then

22:27

sometimes it's

22:28

the knowledge base. But some of our, we've got senior service techs that have

22:32

been doing it for,

22:34

you know, 30 years. And when they leave, we're going to lose the knowledge in

22:37

itself. And I always

22:38

tell them and say, I'm just going to plug you into the matrix will suck your

22:40

brain out. So now we

22:41

have all your information. But unfortunately, you can't do that. So you

22:44

interview them, you

22:45

haven't build videos, you have people write it down. If you can, if you can get

22:49

it written,

22:49

if you can get it transcribed, it somehow get the information that people have

22:53

into a format that people can find. That's where we really, the world is moving

22:58

to. You got to have

22:58

the information available, but in somebody's head just doesn't work until we

23:02

start planning

23:03

chips and heads and they can read their brain, but brave new world there. But

23:08

it's finding

23:10

information and getting it out of people. We've got the same problem internally

23:13

. People who are

23:14

retiring and they've got lots of information and you've got to, you've got to

23:18

really plan for that.

23:19

You've got to figure out how to capture the good morsels and tidbits that they

23:24

have in their head

23:25

that they've done for years that they've really never told anybody about. And

23:28

if you don't get them,

23:29

then you got to relearn them. But once you learn them, you got to write them

23:32

down or capture them

23:33

somewhere. So it's a, everybody has that problem. So people keep retiring.

23:40

Now, when you think about what you've described, I think this picture for our

23:44

zone series, what I'm hearing. Now, Kavizya, you guys are very active, I think

23:49

overall,

23:50

as a company in terms of sharing these best practices, having some form of

23:56

harmonization of

23:57

these ideas. How does that work across the larger company? I think there's 14

24:01

to 15 different group

24:02

companies, right? I'll be thinking there's more. There's actually 20. So I

24:06

think it's, yeah.

24:07

So yeah, it's several. But we've, I mean, Kavizya is really, it's a packaging

24:14

company. So everybody

24:15

knows packaging. And we like to leverage our companies in a way that how do we

24:21

make sure people

24:23

have consistent practices? How do you have one way of doing things, really

24:27

getting to the,

24:28

when you talk to RA Jones, when you talk to Kavizya, you're getting this one

24:33

standard of service.

24:34

And on a global company, global basis, there's multiple regions we have.

24:39

Cultures are different. So really understanding the difference in regions

24:43

versus the difference

24:44

in company and presenting a consistent approach. It's a complicated way to do

24:50

business, but we're

24:51

maneuvering through it and figuring out how to really get that consistent

24:55

approach. And really,

24:56

you know, if you want a packaging partner, we have Kavizya here, we can be a

24:59

packaging partner,

25:00

and we can support you around the world. That's really where the vision is. And

25:03

we're, we work

25:06

together all the time and are getting closer and closer. So the world gets

25:10

smaller once you have

25:11

a lot of teams. COVID actually made the world smaller. So we used to travel to

25:16

see each other.

25:16

Now we just turn on the video and talk. So it's a different word.

25:20

I mean, there's a lot of different things that happened in the last four years.

25:23

They said,

25:23

"COVID made us operate differently. I'm sitting in my co-working space today. I

25:29

almost never

25:29

come here because it's easy for me to turn on my computer and my teams and

25:32

start the morning off

25:33

from home office." But if you consider some of those things you just talked

25:39

about,

25:39

which is the changes in the customers and how they think about stuff, the

25:42

changes in the workforce,

25:43

you know, data and rigor and process discipline, if you may, with some of the

25:47

things you guys are

25:48

doing. If I were to ask you, "Sippal, if you think back not just in the last

25:52

eight years and

25:53

customer service, but you've been observing service and customer service now

25:57

for 20 years,

25:57

you know, at the Harajons/Korija companies, you know, what's your take on what

26:04

sets

26:04

apart what I would call a, uh, for market champion, somebody who's doing

26:09

certain things really well,

26:10

be it, you know, a systematic way of growing, systematic way of delivering your

26:14

service and so on and so

26:15

forth, versus that the examples you've seen in your professional career are the

26:19

people who don't do

26:20

such a good job. But what's your, what's your take on the champions versus not?

26:24

So that's a, that's a strong question. But uh, I think the real side that you

26:35

have to get to is

26:36

what does the customer need? What does the customer want? What is their

26:39

expectations?

26:40

Dabble and agile a little bit too, customer feedback, customer response.

26:46

Every time I go somewhere or do something or on my phone, I get, I get a,

26:51

somebody sends me a survey

26:52

and says, "Hey, what, how good did we do?" But that continuous feedback loop

26:58

and really, not just

26:59

getting the feedback, but listening to it, embracing it and understanding it

27:03

really makes the champion

27:04

stand out. People collect information and if you collect information and don't

27:08

do anything with it,

27:09

your customer isn't satisfied. So I think what really, really makes,

27:16

I mean, it's customer service. You got to deal with the customers. You need to

27:19

listen, you need to

27:20

react to them, you need to work with them, you need to communicate with them.

27:24

It really is, is focused on

27:26

how the customer success is managed and how we can enable that customer success

27:33

versus the people

27:35

that haven't quite gotten there yet is like, "Well, I want my, you're talking

27:38

to everybody's in the

27:39

business. It's my business success. How can I be successful in my business

27:42

versus how can my

27:43

customer be successful in their business?" And once you transition from your

27:48

own success to the

27:49

customer success, suddenly your business actually becomes more successful. But

27:53

it's, it's that

27:55

measurement, you know, the finance people want to know how your business is

27:58

doing. The customers,

28:00

when they're successful, they actually give you more business so you do better.

28:03

So, so it's a,

28:05

it's a matter of really focusing on how successful your companies are, what do

28:08

they need

28:09

and adapting to what you're hearing and, and really building your strategy on

28:13

enabling them to be

28:14

successful. I think that, that really gets to the point of how can you be

28:18

successful.

28:18

And I think that's something important that I've heard from multiple of my

28:24

guests, which is the

28:25

ability to make sure you focus on what makes your customer successful is

28:28

important. The other thing,

28:29

and I think that applies to you as well, people for the products our Jones

28:33

makes, such as the

28:34

machines you make, the packaging machines you make last for 10, 15 years in

28:38

your customer base,

28:39

right? There's some of these old machines out there. And your customer service

28:43

is probably the only

28:44

touch point that consistently stays connected to your customer over time, right

28:48

? The, the equipment

28:49

people go the one time big sale for a million dollars, two million dollars,

28:52

whatever it might be

28:53

a line, a set of lines and then they go away. Yes, they treat them as special

28:56

customers, but your

28:58

group, your team is the one that's constantly touched in delivering that

29:01

experience, delivering

29:03

that success. And I think that's really the, the aspect of service. I think

29:06

people need to keep

29:08

in mind as well. Yeah, and, and people have lots of names for it, but we call

29:13

it asset management,

29:14

but it's the life cycle, the life cycle of the equipment, you know, you'll

29:18

spend two, I don't know,

29:20

two years, six months, nine months buying capital equipment. And that's a whole

29:24

group of people,

29:25

but now we're expecting it to run for 20. We, we're servicing machines that are

29:29

50 years old,

29:30

so some that are a year old, but it's, it's a matter of how do you maintain the

29:34

asset, how do you make

29:35

it run and, and maintaining that communication and touch point and, and really

29:40

looking at your

29:41

customers and, and understanding what they need. Some of them like to do it

29:44

themselves,

29:45

some of them like to do it with help, some of them like to have you do it for

29:49

them and understanding

29:50

what they need, but really make letting them understand we're here to help. And

29:55

this machine's

29:55

going to be around a while. So hey, let's get to know each other and let's

29:58

really build that

29:59

relationship because it, their production keeps going. And that's what they're

30:03

in business to do.

30:04

So we're in business to help them keep going. That's right. Well, this has been

30:08

a great conversation

30:09

and almost with every one of my guests, I actually like to end with my favorite

30:13

question because I'm

30:14

a big podcast listener as well. And one of my favorite podcasts is a guy, that

30:19

's the person

30:19

called Guy Raz. And his question always to his guests is like, Hey, you know,

30:23

in the, in this

30:24

spectrum of luck to good looks to amazing talent. How much do you ascribe to

30:29

where you are today

30:30

to luck versus talent versus hard work? Right? I mean, what's your point of

30:35

view on that one?

30:36

And, and I would have to say, there's some of all of that. And it's, you know,

30:46

call it luck,

30:48

call it fate, right place, right time. There's definitely times when things

30:54

just happened.

30:55

A lot of my employees ask, well, how come we're not doing this yet? It says,

30:59

well, I have to be

31:00

patient and wait until the company's ready to do it. But being at the right

31:03

place at the right

31:04

time is a bit of luck. But hard work, effort, paying attention, learning new

31:10

things, creating,

31:12

you know, self awareness, how do I react to things? How do people react to

31:15

things,

31:16

learning from each situation, how businesses function, how people function, you

31:21

embrace that,

31:22

and you learn from it. So if you continually learn, sometimes you make your own

31:27

luck, because if you

31:28

get that right situation and you say the wrong thing, it doesn't go anywhere.

31:32

If you get the

31:33

right situation, say the right thing, it does go somewhere. So I really think

31:37

it's a mix. I think

31:38

we're all working through our individual realities. We're embracing other

31:43

people and it comes down to

31:45

when you find the right people to work with, you give your high level of effort

31:50

and everything you

31:50

have and share that. I think you become successful when you take that approach

31:54

and really you listen

31:55

to people, you work with people, and you share your ideas and the luck just

31:59

kind of happens sometimes.

32:00

So it's been a great journey. I think it's some of both. So I wouldn't say, and

32:06

it's definitely not

32:06

my good luck. So I got looks for radio probably. That's a great one. That's a

32:12

great one. It looks

32:13

so radio. Well, I think this was awesome. Well, thank you so much for the great

32:18

insights. I really

32:19

think in terms of the kinds of things we talked about, which is a process

32:22

discipline, there's a

32:23

data rigor. It's making customers caring about their success person foremost,

32:28

right, in this whole

32:29

process and removing waste from the system is a really, really good way to kind

32:33

of capture a lot

32:35

of the mindset if you may that you guys bring to customer service. So this has

32:39

been a great

32:39

conversation. I appreciate it very much. And I'm sure our guests are listening

32:43

and appreciators

32:43

as well. So thanks for your time today. Really happy to be here. Enjoy the

32:48

conversation.

32:48

As we complete another enlightening episode, I extend my sincere gratitude to

32:59

our esteemed guests

33:00

and you are valued listeners. If today's conversation resonated with you,

33:05

please subscribe to this

33:05

podcast and Spotify, Apple podcast or Google Play. I'll simply visit a website

33:12

at www.entidal.com

33:13

for more interesting content. Remember, the pursuit of aftermarket decks is an

33:18

ongoing journey

33:19

and I look forward to continuing with you. Until next time, stay informed, stay

33:23

inspired,

33:24

and continue championing aftermarket success.

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